Wednesday, November 7, 2007

QUESTION THREE - The Ideals featuring Tim Maia?

LATEST UPDATE: 12/18/07

Hi Red,

I'm a huge fan of Brazilian soul music (yes, it does exist with quite a catalogue to support the claim too) and the giant in this field is known as Tim Maia. He spent several years in the U.S. before returning to Brazil and launching his career in earnest. During this time in the states he sang with a couple of vocal groups. This was the early 1960s. He claims to have founded a multi-racial group called "The Ideals" during this time, either living in Tarrytown, NY or maybe even NYC. He claims to have recorded a song he later re-recorded in Brazil, called "New Love."

I have never found anything to confirm the existence of this record other than Tim Maia's insistence that he recorded it during his time in the US. He is also known for saying, "I don't burn, I don't snort, and I don't drink. My only problem is that sometimes I lie a little." (Often said with a joint in hand)

The style of the group was probably Doo-wop and Tim may or may not have sung lead with his deep voice and possible portuguese accent.

There is a Tim Maia compilation coming out on Luaka Bop next year that I helped work on. See it here: www.timmaia.com

Thanks,

Allen

OK, detectives, you really have to check out the Tim Maia story...



This guy was indeed larger than life, and personally responsible for importing real soul music to Brazil. He was also an absolute trip! The Ideals 45 is kind of like a 'holy grail' to fans of this music... let's see what we can find out!

11/9/07

OK folks, we've had some input here (although some of it is in Portugese), and it looks like Tim's son Carmelo will be joining us in our quest. In the meantime, Allen Thayer (the guy who started us on all of this) has submitted the Brazilian remake Maia did of the Ideals' song back in 1973:


New Love

As Allen said, "it's not my favorite song of Tim's," but maybe it will jog somebody's memory. Taken from Maia's fourth solo LP, it's got this whole lounge thing happening... break out the Caipirinhas, baby! I'll tell ya, this whole inquiry has been an eye opener for me. I had read Allen's article 'Black Rio' in Waxpoetics back in April of last year, but never really dug any deeper than that. This is getting interesting!

Be sure to check out Soul Spectrum, 'the Ambassador's' new Brazilian Soul site where he's 'cross-posted' our investigation.

It's all good.

12/18/07

OK folks, I'm not sure if you've been following the 'comments' here, but there's been a major breakthrough in this case. As reported by Allen over on Soul Spectrum, he was able to track down the co-writer of 'New Love' (and original member of The Ideals), Roger Bruno, through the (continually amazing) internet...

"Hello Intrepid Investigators -
I met with Roger Bruno and his lovely partner Ellen in Tarrytown last night and talked with them for an hour and a half about Tim Maia. There's a lot to share here, but I don't have my notes in front of me and the best stuff is still yet to come. But let me share with you that indeed a recording exists of "New Love" but its an acetate in the possession of a past girlfriend of Roger's. The song was never released commercially. The Ideals were planning on shopping it around to different labels, but Tim got arrested and deported before they had a chance! Roger confirmed that the famous Brazilian drummer Milton Banana played on the session as did well-known jazz and rock bassist Don Payne (look him up). Roger said that this song was an attempt to get in with the then burgeoning appreciation for Brazilian Bossa Nova, but fused with a soul vocal harmony sound. He's in the process of tracking down the acetate and he'll get me a copy as soon as he is able...."


How cool is that? I can't wait to hear the record!

In the meantime, you can check out the full details of their meeting at Allen's site, but I just couldn't resist putting up the cool photo Roger gave him of The Ideals in the studio back in the day...



That's our man Tim (aka 'Jimmy the Brazilian') there in the middle.

Allen says he's working up an article about this whole amazing story for Waxpoetics.

You can't make this stuff up.

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14 Comments:

Blogger Dom said...

Hi, I call Carmelo Maia, son of the singer Tim Maia.Relation to the group The Ideals, you has some registro?help please.
It sends email for carmelomaia@gmail.com

November 8, 2007 at 8:17 PM  
Blogger the ambassador said...

Oi Dom, sou Allen a pessoa que comecei essa discusao aqui. Voce e um amigo de Carmelo? Voce ja enviou uma mensagem a Carmelo ou nao? Você pode contatar-me aqui: allenthayer@gmail.com

obrigado,
Allen

November 9, 2007 at 5:19 AM  
Blogger the ambassador said...

So, I emailed with Tim's only legitimate, blood son, Carmelo and he had the following to say about The Ideals:

paraphrased: about the past, my dad didn't like to discuss much, possibly because he wasn't proud of it . . . but there's a story about when he was in Brasil and the president of Philips Records in Brasil gave him a present of being able to record with James Brown's band. And he returned to the U.S. to records but where are the recordings?

I responded to Carmelo, asking if he know any better when and where the recordings took place. We'll see what he says.

But it looks like we're no where closer to turning anything up on The Ideals.

I know that Tim lived in Tarrytown, NY during the majority of his time in the US. Does anyone out there live in Tarrytown or have contacts there that might remember a vocal group called The Ideals?

Allen

November 12, 2007 at 8:43 AM  
Blogger Red Kelly said...

Allen (and everybody else),

I emailed a guy named David Griffiths, who runs the ambitious and quite excellent site New York Soul Recordings, about the Tarrytown angle about three days ago... I haven't heard back from him as yet.

I'll keep ya posted!

November 12, 2007 at 9:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Launching of the Biography of MAIA singer TIM, VALLEY EVERYTHING - the SOUND and the FURIA OF MAIA TIM.
CARMELO MAIA finished to find 8 musicas unknown of the RATIONAL phase CULTURE.Até today thought that only it existed 2 records and for our surprise will be launched MAYAN record TIM RATIONAL VOLUME 3, the biggest rarity. NEWS:Marcelo D2 reads this, vocalista of the Planet Hemp, and Paul Stewart, son of Jack Stewart, is some of the fans of Mayan Tim who had bought the gold price the few available units of the two volumes of the record Mayan Tim Racional.Lançados in 1975 and 1976 during the phase obscurest of the singer, the albums had still not been relaunched in COMPACT DISC, but they can be found in tallows and fairs the albums had still not been relaunched in COMPACT DISC, but tallows and fairs for until R$ 250,00 can be found in (the paid price for the emissary of Stewart, Brazilian pilot Luciano Burti). They are two delicious records of Tim, that at the time it dived deep in the teachings of the seita Universe in Disenchantment." This is one would materia launched has one year atras, only Mayan the Tim record Rational volume 1 was launched until today.

November 12, 2007 at 9:27 PM  
Blogger the ambassador said...

I'm not sure who posted that last one, but it might have been Carmelo, Tim's son. In a side email he's mentioned the release of a new book about Tim's life. The first four chapters are available for download and they include his time in the US, but there is not much mentioned about this recording except for the additional information that the legendary Brazilian drummer, Milton Banana played drums on the session. This suggests that it must have been recorded while Milton was in the US and I know he was here for a huge Bossa Nova concert at Carnegie Hall in 1962. Tim attended the show as well and was acquaintances with a number of the performers. The concert was in November of 1962, so the recording must have been around the same time. The song also had a co-author whom I'm guessing was also a member of the Ideals: Roger Bruno.

On a side note, like most investigations they often open doors that you didn't know existed or were only rumored to exist. This is the case here as well . . . Carmelo confirmed something I had heard before as a rumor, that Tim had recorded more songs for the religious cult he joined in the mid-seventies that had never been released . . . supposedly they will be released at some point soon, the mysterious and magical "Tim Maia Racional Volume 3"

November 13, 2007 at 1:34 PM  
Blogger Red Kelly said...

OK: According to the BMI database, Roger J Bruno was indeed the author of a song called New Love (although Tim Maia is not listed as a co-writer on the site). The current publishing company for the song is listed as:

COUSINS MUSIC
836 DARWIN STREET
CHARLESTON, SC 29412-4202
(803) 795-5612

Maybe they can provide a lead...

November 13, 2007 at 4:18 PM  
Blogger the ambassador said...

Red et al,

Yesterday I emailed a musician I found online by the name Roger Bruno in the off chance that it was the same guy who wrote with Tim. This just came in the ole email today:

Hi Allen,

This is really something. Yes, I'm the same Roger Bruno who wrote and
performed with Tim Maia (aka Sebastian Maia, aka "Jimmy the Brazilian") in
the early 60's as "The Ideals."

Jimmy was pretty amazing both as a musician and as a person. I pretty much
lost track of him after his deportation, but I'd like to discuss him and
that time period with you and hopefully fill in some of the blank spaces
for both of us.

If you're interested, and want to send your phone info, I'll give you a
call. Thanks for getting in touch.

Best.

Roger

I'll have another update after we talk and maybe he's got a copy of the record!

November 14, 2007 at 9:20 AM  
Blogger Red Kelly said...

WOW!

November 14, 2007 at 9:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

this is beyond great. next we'll find out that tim had a one night stand with aretha.

November 15, 2007 at 1:21 AM  
Blogger the ambassador said...

just an update to let you know that I will be meeting Roger Bruno on Thursday in Tarrytown, where the Ideals met and performed so many years ago. I'll be sure to give an update following the meeting. - Allen

November 27, 2007 at 7:55 AM  
Blogger Red Kelly said...

how cool is that?

...can't wait to hear all about it, man!

November 27, 2007 at 10:53 AM  
Blogger the ambassador said...

Hello Intrepid Investigators,

I met with Roger Bruno and his lovely partner Ellen in Tarrytown last night and talked with them for an hour and a half about Tim Maia. There's a lot to share here, but I don't have my notes in front of me and the best stuff is still yet to come. But let me share with you that indeed a recording exists of "New Love" but its an acetate in the possession of a past girlfriend of Roger's. The song was never released commercially. The Ideals were planning on shopping it around to different labels, but Tim got arrested and deported before they had a chance! Roger confirmed that the famous Brazilian drummer Milton Banana played on the session as did well-known jazz and rock bassist Don Payne (look him up). Roger said that this song was an attempt to get in with the then burgeoning appreciation for Brazilian Bossa Nova, but fused with a soul vocal harmony sound. He's in the process of tracking down the acetate and he'll get me a copy as soon as he is able. He did have a photo from the session of the The Ideals, with a clean-cut Tim Maia in the center, singing in the studio for the session. check out my blog www.soulspectrum.blogspot.com for a more detailed post soon. Peace, Allen

November 30, 2007 at 7:28 AM  
Blogger the ambassador said...

Hi Red,

Roger emailed me a picture of The Ideals in the recording studio laying down the vocal harmonies for "New Love." Its as close as we've gotten to hearing the song, though that is gonna happen soon (I Hope). Check out Soul Spectrum to see this picture:
www.soulspectrum.blogspot.com

Peace, Allen

December 5, 2007 at 8:55 AM  

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